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本帖最后由 klwo2 于 2019-11-3 19:48 编辑
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汉语里的「讽刺」本来是一个偏负面的词，现代汉语规范词典：+ D& k/ D2 x k ~
. ?$ i+ |! a4 a7 w3 t' v% Z用比喻、夸张、反语等表达手法进行揭露、批评或嘲笑。
) R6 {# O" p6 V9 Y! {「讽」，现代汉语词典：0 c, x! p% Y1 r' ~! k8 {
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3 {" \% r2 E! ~! ^( G但是不知道为什么，好多英汉词典非要把「ironic」「irony」跟「讽」挂上钩（irony明明是「反话」！），搞得一系列相关词都莫名其妙。比如说吧：
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牛津高阶双解(第四版)：: F' e% w+ b1 A6 L9 l* ~1 g2 R5 }
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9 u; X3 T( {. a! Z' m1 \+ p: a7 x1 q牛津高阶(第9版)：3 M! Z, y( t) @* D7 _, ?
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He pulled a wry face when I asked him how it had gone.
; Q: R6 x% q- ?我问他近况如何，他有些哭笑不得。
同一个短语，新版跟老版解释不一样，绝了吧？
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9 j- a1 r% H$ \$ N/ n1 u更绝的还有这个呢，外研社新英汉词典：5 q& {( K# O+ P! j/ z3 p
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奇了怪了，「做鬼脸」什么时候「表示不同意，又不愿公然反驳」啦？？？辞海：
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故意装出一种怪相来吓人或哄人。徐学谟《归有园麈谈》：“乘势作威者，如大人装鬼脸以骇小儿，背地则收下。”
! s. X( A9 \/ ~$ R外研社新英汉词典据说是《三民最新簡明英漢》转成简体过来的，没有原书，就不深究了。2 \/ A) s8 x8 X! X+ r
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Chambers Dictionary 13th：+ n9 b7 S& t8 P# C
" k$ @# f2 G. c% Mmake or pull a wry face or mouth! y; R8 J4 \- ` }0 j
To pucker up the face or mouth in reaction to a bitter or astringent taste, or to pain, or to express disgust or distaste
# O/ Z" ~( m0 n; A看见没，这么多情况都能说「pull a wry face」，「鬼脸」却只能对应「吓人」「哄人」（逗乐）的情况，可见「做鬼脸」根本不合适。
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' a2 m% l3 `, k4 S, [, w: Wwry 到底是什么意思呢？好多书都说本义是「歪」，至于衍生的意思，还得请教英英辞书：
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8 L2 y7 z A$ W# |) DSOED6+OTD：
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Of the features, neck, etc.: turned to one side, contorted, distorted; spec. (of the face, a look, etc.) twisted or contorted as a manifestation of dislike, disgust, disappointment, or (now freq.) quiet or sardonic amusement. E16.
原来是脸啊、表情啊什么的皱一皱、动一动，表达苦；或者苦中有点乐、乐中有点苦的幽默 —— 后者现在用得越来越多了。
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顺着这个思路，有的词典立两个义项，一个苦，一个有苦有乐：
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! ]3 d, X; \5 z7 ~American Heritage Dictionary 5th/ H5 Z- u5 n) z. _6 O- `
! B7 M' i5 S4 _. G# ]1 U. u1. Funny in an understated, sarcastic, or ironic way: —— 有苦有乐* m! z9 x& K, N5 k+ u" \2 z
a wry sense of humor.
6 I" \: ]. P0 ]1 p; b2. Temporarily twisted in an expression of distaste or displeasure: —— 苦
$ K# |+ w. X! D. `# q: Umade a wry face.
新牛津：# o$ R9 K, u- V9 e# |) B
1. using or expressing dry, especially mocking, humour—— 有苦有乐
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2. (of a person's face or features) twisted into an expression of disgust, disappointment, or annoyance —— 苦
- V: ?. @5 T' F( K6 f: NWebster's Third New International Dictionary：
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2
9 v# R, |( G( A* Q8 t- j5 P1 g% Qa. : twisted to express an emotion usually of disgust or displeasure —— 苦# N& C4 {; K; i* r; Y6 K; ^
< took another drink … making a wry face — Erskine Caldwell >
0 ~8 {& B% R M2 db. : made by a deliberate distortion of the facial muscles often to express irony or mockery—— 有苦有乐
; y1 i j7 I; O. [/ `, @% J < at the door he turned with a wry smile — Agnes S. Turnbull >
# H0 D( w& g% y: C( B- p/ m. K7 S# r3. marked by perversity : contrary to what is considered right : wrongheaded —— 不苦不乐，只是倒错7 M1 h% N0 g. ]9 T/ f/ W0 d
< wondered how he had come to make such a wry thing of his life — Elizabeth Taylor >
韦3的解释是多么到位啊！
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Chambers 21st Century3 p/ R2 L- i! M9 L8 W
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1 said eg of a smile: slightly mocking or bitter; ironic. —— 有苦有乐& R4 c2 q) h# f* t
2 said of a facial expression: with the features distorted or twisted into a grimace, in reaction to a bitter taste, etc.—— 苦
, j* \; @( l# Y5 ^, y还有的词典只有一个义项，「有苦有乐」，苦的那一面不是特别重要就略去了：
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Vocabulary.com Dictionary： K3 F; g' i2 A
" A: k- w- Q9 L, a8 a6 k' n( Y* I) l/ DA wry sense of humor is a sarcastic one. You were late for work, stepped into a mud puddle, and you forgot your lunch. If your co-worker asks how your morning is going, you can reply with a wry tone, "Perfectly perfect."
( \: o0 M* P3 K/ l* l1 l: {8 d qThe original use for the adjective wry was to describe something that was bent or twisted, so a sprained ankle could be described as "a wry ankle." Today, the word wry is often used to describe less tangible twists. Wry humor and wry wit both describe a sense of humor that is a little twisted from the norm.
Vocabulary.com 重点解释了今天流行的「幽默」「有苦有乐」这个意思。
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最后咱看一下烂大街的Collins COBUILD：
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1. If someone has a wry expression, it shows that they find a bad situation or a change in a situation slightly amusing.* s i, w" s4 `4 U e5 D7 O3 {
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2. A wry remark or piece of writing refers to a bad situation or a change in a situation in an amusing way.
烂大街的剑桥：
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showing that you find a bad or difficult situation slightly funny
看看，Collins COBUILD、剑桥都能把「幽默」「有苦有乐」说清楚。下面来看看英汉词典：
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英汉大词典：5 m) A5 r7 u, m4 V
3 f1 M2 I \0 P( Z" z5 _3 l2. (表示厌恶、乐趣等时的面部表情)面部扭曲的;露出怪相的
/ ~/ |, ] U# H$ g! f3 mHe tasted the mixture with a wry expression on his face.他尝了尝那合剂,脸上露出一副怪相。
; [9 {" S* _$ a& t0 HOver the beer she made a wry face and said “Nasty!”她对啤酒做了一个鬼脸,说道“真难喝!”2 Z8 W; O$ ]1 t' n' ^3 W
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6. 富于幽默感的;挖苦的;讽刺的- ^- s6 H# k9 w% ?- ^) [) c
a wry joke笑话
) M1 Q9 V3 V+ z- n# x0 za wry sense of humour冷嘲式幽默感
英汉大词典的义项太多了！只说第2、第6个。
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第2个还行吧，「苦」「乐」两面都有，虽然不知道什么叫「表示……乐趣等时的面部表情」（？？），不过好歹例句足够好。
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7 H! L7 f4 `' [7 @, M. X/ @$ w7 s2 f第6个就奇怪了，joke 是笑话，「a wry joke」也是笑话吗？wry = 空？至于「幽默感」（正面词）怎么跟「挖苦讽刺』（负面词）搁在一起，大概读者心里也是稀里糊涂的。; c" {+ A4 u5 y4 B% b7 r1 Z
# Y5 q6 w3 h3 W文馨当代： R2 w: x! r5 l1 }( d$ J
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1. a(脸、表情等)有不悦之色的
3 ^3 k% S1 o& L7 {3 g/ I: T# ?•a wry look [expression]愁眉苦脸* U7 [: m/ j6 L2 m, a
•He had a wry grin on his face.他面带苦笑。/ S% z6 m6 I5 [" {4 `1 [
……
5 T# s" K4 C6 K8 C2.(言语、幽默等)讽刺的,讥嘲的
# ]. G# c3 p! g: ^; W6 @•a wry remark讽刺的话
6 E! f' K% U8 p$ `. K+ [- C文馨当代里面好像没有「乐」8 C/ F! k) a3 S
6 l" l9 ?: }, _5 i+ B5 _4 B韦氏高阶：9 i2 P1 M" u9 b
& C' S8 u1 L7 r& d. s1 : humorous in a clever and often ironic way讽刺的；挖苦的
6 ?) g: w1 t4 ~: d5 D( z2 : showing both amusement and a feeling of being tired, annoyed, etc.啼笑皆非的
韦氏高阶说「啼笑皆非」，这个不坏。只是，第一个义项里面，原文明明说了humorous、clever，怎么翻译一下就只剩「讽刺挖苦」了？莫非英汉词典译者脑子里面的「讽刺」，是万能词？
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' F8 R' Q6 p. E$ T H: l牛津高阶9也是这个毛病：! ^5 o0 q" w9 U, q7 P0 c5 k5 E
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amusing in a way that shows irony 挖苦的；讽刺的；揶揄的
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a wry comment
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; I6 W" g! ^ E- _2 ^「a wry comment」怎么就等于「挖苦的评论」了？amusing 的含义在哪里？辞海「挖苦」：用刻薄的话讽刺。《官场现形记》第四十七回：“施藩台晓得董钦差是挖苦他，把脸红了一阵。”
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% c' w" @. v- z- u; t21世纪大英汉词典
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1.扭歪的；歪斜的
$ j- y" @$ I$ B, }2.皱眉头的；(表示不满时)面部肌肉扭曲的；做出怪相的1 e" ]! q9 h9 ]: [
3.坚持错误的，固执己见的! W( n" e- `" S' h) } k1 C- F
4.歪曲了的，曲解了的( U; q/ j7 x; e% e$ ?6 L9 r
5.讽刺的，挖苦的，辛辣的；作弄(人)的
21世纪大英汉 里面，凭空多了个「作弄人」，到底是苦是乐呢？反正就是不肯学习英英词典，老老实实把这个词的两个方面说清楚。. ^. A( E# ~* n/ X4 I6 S5 l
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遠東英漢大辭典：: e" J- E% C6 c
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5 ]% _' P, ^/ J! p; `遠東英漢确实是一本神奇的词典，它把Webster's Third New International Dictionary里面「marked by perversity : contrary to what is considered right : wrongheaded —— 不苦不乐，只是倒错」这个意义的例句搬运、翻译了出来，可是，韦3区分「苦」「有苦有乐」的地方那么精彩，遠東英漢怎么不知道抄呢？& g6 n8 F6 `; ` H, u4 x
6 X% |2 K4 X# x& a0 }2 Q國際英漢大詞典（張芳杰）：9 h7 h: h! z Q; `
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( G" ?- ^! b/ p! n$ {* T抄抄抄，净不知道抄好的，呃……顺便，这里第4个义项，说wry laughs 是「嘲笑声」，不对。% e D5 [( @/ u4 O9 ?/ C2 b7 m4 |
2 `' p' M! c% c4 G/ P3 {. Q( c新英汉词典：) p* |* d" o- E4 C% F! ?' f
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1 扭歪的;歪斜的:+ Q7 P/ \& t+ _" ^) b, n# p5 E) O9 I
a wry nose歪鼻子" I1 n+ q- E1 Q5 G; V9 T0 f! ?$ z
2 (表示厌恶、不满等)面部扭曲的:+ ]! H& \/ T% O& N3 q3 N* x
a wry smile苦笑
: c. a" Z3 R9 m# f: \make a wry face做鬼脸
英汉大词典里面还知道有「乐」的成分，新英汉就只剩「厌恶、不满」了，这是怎么回事呀？+ r: o& {) M3 N: ~' Y
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21世紀電腦英漢漢英雙向辭典：& Y! q8 k) F `6 X* u2 k
) }& K2 Z5 s0 I5 g1 a. (一时) 不高兴的, 皱眉的, 扭歪的 < 脸、表情等>
7 w; W6 ?. T. l5 U& X! a$ Ua ~ look (略带滑稽的) 苦脸. b0 r! d- E8 N& y4 l9 n) i
a ~ smile (微微的) 苦笑
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做鬼脸, 皱起面孔6 N# k7 k) X1 L/ e+ Z
(难吃、失望、厌恶等的表情)
这本挺奇妙，（一时）(略带滑稽的) (微微的) 都是妙笔，像是传达了「有苦有乐」的微妙之处，虽然并没明确说 ——这自然是原日作的功劳了) {; V$ X3 v6 m
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发表于 2019-11-3 19:13:35
楼主