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[词典讨论] as such一个几乎让所有词典都阵亡的短语

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  • TA的每日心情
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    2020-3-25 07:07
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    [LV.2]偶尔看看I

    发表于 2017-12-14 08:41:04 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
    as such作为短语,基本就两个意思:: e* X# p# w6 F$ c( `( j/ ~
    1)就其本身看;per se; in itself
    9 j# }. C' Q$ ]4 V' a5 @& O  p1 A. W2)因此,所以; so, therefore* q7 V2 z3 ~6 y+ W, M3 K7 @

    2 M1 D- M1 s; ?3 l但是,发现除了wiktionary,几乎所有词典都没有给出“因此”的解释。  v* d9 Z2 D& \

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    2018-6-15 18:18
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    [LV.8]以坛为家I

    发表于 2017-12-14 12:44:27 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
    as本身就有因为之意,加上个such就变成因为这个,即因此,不需要解释
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    2020-9-5 18:00
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    [LV.7]常住居民III

    发表于 2017-12-14 14:39:58 | 显示全部楼层
    但是wiktionary最下面有个链接,as such does not mean therefore. 虽然打不开,但是网上可以搜到不少相关文章。% |; D: U* }% C2 V+ r
    随便找了个。语法的知识我看不太懂,就不去深究了。
    ! p. s- f, C0 ^" c0 q" x( k. dhttps://editex.com/but-why-cant- ... stead-of-therefore/
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    2020-9-5 18:00
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    [LV.7]常住居民III

    发表于 2017-12-14 14:44:27 | 显示全部楼层
    科林斯的解释:in the capacity previously specified or understood。 感觉就非常到位了
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    [LV.2]偶尔看看I

     楼主| 发表于 2017-12-14 15:04:34 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 elusty 于 2017-12-14 15:11 编辑 : Z* [) m' ~% x# z+ n( r
    Niaaan 发表于 2017-12-14 14:443 h* N4 O3 D' Z: L( O! j5 n& ?- z9 O
    科林斯的解释:in the capacity previously specified or understood。 感觉就非常到位了

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    0 y0 _! |/ @! t( H7 E2 E感谢。
    3 Q, M$ z4 o: T2 A* i- @我忘了说了,这个用法经常是放在句首,并用逗号分开的。8 |" s  d; ^6 s3 a/ t9 ?
    fawefawefwe. As such, faefawefadfw....
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    ) p: @  [- V, M# \. L3 E所以,柯林斯的这个法官职位的例句,仍然与这个意思有一定出入。( p+ f1 b) B" ?# N- A+ a+ i
    4 ^. I6 u' B4 z0 y: I5 |
    下面的这个选自柯林斯的例句较为类似:
    / C: E3 U- F' t. `! c  ~另外,wiktionary这个短语归入了副词用法:/ z+ o1 ?5 i; g! e7 s; F

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    [LV.7]常住居民III

    发表于 2017-12-14 15:08:53 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 Niaaan 于 2017-12-14 15:10 编辑 : u; K$ n7 k* x0 X7 G
    elusty 发表于 2017-12-14 15:04. f6 k! _/ W  E( ?) t
    感谢。' O5 `3 f/ ]9 Z: V/ V7 t
    我忘了说了,这个用法经常是放在句首,并用逗号分开的。/ @+ U0 Y; s( D: O  s+ c% Y
    fawefawefwe. As such, faefawefadfw.... ...

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    such一定要有所指,放在句首如果有所指,就是可以的。如果无所指,那么这个用法就是错的,虽然读起来很通顺。看上面发的那篇文章链接,应该不少native speaker也会犯这种错误。
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    [LV.2]偶尔看看I

     楼主| 发表于 2017-12-14 15:19:09 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 elusty 于 2017-12-14 15:23 编辑
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    Niaaan 发表于 2017-12-14 15:08* j# G( O/ s2 R9 [9 s. ^
    such一定要有所指,放在句首如果有所指,就是可以的。如果无所指,那么这个用法就是错的,虽然读起来很通 ...
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    . x: Y. h' R6 o( Z! V& O( \
    你说的很对,必须前面有叙述内容,甚至有可能是上面一段的内容。+ _. q4 k4 m; K( l9 i4 ?3 L6 h

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    [LV.2]偶尔看看I

     楼主| 发表于 2017-12-14 15:30:21 | 显示全部楼层
    终于找到了一个“规定性”解释:不过,我认为,语言是发展的,总是唯OED是瞻也不可取。
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    % V7 p! o- Q6 a! J6 mhttps://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2010/09/as-such.html  R# D$ E7 `, H
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    Q: I generally see “as such” used to mean “therefore,” but I think it should refer to something just mentioned. It’s hard, however, to explain this to other people. Can you assist?6 S7 Q& o; g: [! K' _* `& h* L

    3 x9 i; L  J& C) XA: You’re right in thinking that the use of “as such” to mean “therefore” is frowned on.
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    - ]5 Y4 j  t; ~The Oxford English Dictionary calls this usage “colloquial” (that is, more suited for speech than writing) or “vulgar” (commonplace or lacking refinement). 5 ~5 {* a6 q( @2 x

    ) {; B) M- e8 B/ L- |" ?The word “such” in the idiomatic expression “as such” is a pronoun, and as a pronoun it’s supposed to refer to or stand for something already mentioned—an antecedent.
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    A sentence shouldn’t include the phrase “as such” unless there’s an antecedent that answers the question “as what?”
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    First, we’ll take a look at the expression’s accepted meanings and their histories.( F# f0 u' J# T, e) p

    3 Y4 `; S1 z$ f, ]7 u( R$ A4 iThe phrase first showed up writing in the mid-17th century, according to the OED.3 s, P& t' M# U+ \" K5 {
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    Its original form was a bit longer—“as it is such” or “as they are such”—and its meaning was “in itself.”
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    John Milton used the phrase that way in The History of England (1670):
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    ! }0 M* O2 p* l0 v& O; d" o“True fortitude glories not in the feats of War, as they are such, but as they serve to end War soonest by a victorious Peace.”- f) Y5 S! \/ q0 l  y- H
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    In that example, “such” refers to the previously mentioned “feats of war.”6 F' A! A! [0 ?7 G
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    A slightly later example, using the phrase in its shorter form, comes from Ralph Cudworth’s The True Intellectual System of the Universe (1668):
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    “If Matter as such, had Life, Perception, and Understanding belonging to it.”" |3 v0 f; V! r' O

    + J0 i8 v! e/ v: i- FIn the example above, “such” refers to the previously mentioned “matter.”* H0 p9 }) u$ z4 F$ P
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    The OED says that in the following century “as such” acquired another meaning: “as being what the name or description implies,” or “in that capacity.”
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    + T2 t/ [+ U1 K8 h$ G) QThe dictionary’s first example in print for this sense is from Richard Steele, writing in The Spectator (1711):
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    7 }9 Q6 ]% l+ S3 Q9 Q( C$ L“When she observed Will. irrevocably her Slave, she began to use him as such.”5 }- {' V  \  Z8 {2 \! ~% O
    / f" ~' `$ a, e3 z& ?. U6 h0 i; h
    Note that here again, the pronoun “such” refers to something already mentioned—in this case, “her slave.”1 {1 P* N+ H# b7 c/ ~) u3 |
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    This more recent example comes from a British legislative act (1911): “The trade or business carried on in the house or place by the licence holder as such.”5 Y6 S) ^: m$ i" u$ U" Q) r

    - V6 x; l# u) ~+ g5 h! t, B% r  WIn that sentence fragment, “such” refers to the already mentioned “licence holder” (the act uses the British spelling of “license”). 7 t8 Z& ^* V/ o/ O6 b# k( |6 l3 I
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    Now for the frowned-on usage, the “vulgar” or “colloquial” one in which “as such” has no real antecedent and means “accordingly,” “consequently,” “thereupon,” or “therefore.”' ~+ F% f# [. h/ i: I

    # O3 U& X; J' @0 ]3 X' M/ YThis usage was first recorded in the 18th century but has never gained acceptance, probably because it’s ambiguous.
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    5 J' {2 C2 K7 q; e$ p  s$ a- W4 wThese two examples from letters written in the early 1800s are good examples of the ambiguity of “as such” when it’s used in this vague sense:
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    “I very much longed to hear from you … and as such I did not the least esteem it for its having been delayed for the reasons assigned.”
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    And: “H. R. H. Princess Augusta … motioned for me to come to her Highness. As such she addressed me in the most pleasant manner possible.”% L4 S" P! F5 o2 Y

    4 _# k& B- O) V& F& U+ _See what we mean? Neither sentence answers the question “as what?”
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    Once again, “such” is a pronoun here, and “as such,” it requires an antecedent.
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