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[语言讨论] “卧底”的正解

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发表于 2016-1-26 18:04:12 | 显示全部楼层 |阅读模式
论坛今日发起讨论“卧底”一词,以某流行词典翻译为例,详见https://www.pdawiki.com/forum/fo ... &extra=page%3D1。可惜无论是dinting还是undercover都非平素我们所理解的“卧底”。即使是undercover也只能勉强充作“身份隐秘的”理解,比如便衣,与“卧底”一词尚有较大距离。% i7 u" ^3 K( w7 e' F
“卧底”大概分为两类:一类是打入敌方的我方谍报人员,另一类是植入犯罪团伙的眼线、线人。前者身份一般也是spy,agent,可译为mole,而后者身份大抵为罪犯,不妨译作stool pigeon,俗称stoolie。遍寻手边所有汉英词典均不见有合适翻译,不知是否算“填补空白”。:-)

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发表于 2016-1-26 18:50:15 | 显示全部楼层
柯林斯高阶英汉双解学习词典
5 u* E, X, d+ H3 {1
8 [+ h4 H- Y- i. N- h' n7 R9 UADJ 秘密的;密探的;卧底的 Undercover work involves secretly obtaining information for the government or the police.
* K9 L3 {5 h2 s6 D& c) A搭配模式:usu ADJ n 搭配模式:ADV after v  E0 b7 E& |" L+ ~" }5 @8 `
...an undercover operation designed to catch drug smugglers.  B) y& [! h; d% A! g
抓捕毒贩的秘密行动
( e$ o. v9 H) G...undercover FBI agents.$ x% u& P- _5 }/ a4 T
联邦调查局的密探
( f' ?! i' N* p) l) U: `% C...undercover reporters.
$ N! T& k( L9 L0 R卧底记者
( V- c- w7 n3 [  h9 c
( ?- v% ?# e5 o* C6 s来自:http://www.iciba.com/undercover

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发表于 2016-1-26 18:50:49 | 显示全部楼层

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发表于 2016-1-26 18:52:51 | 显示全部楼层
undercover简
8 y1 ~2 A+ w. M, E9 kunder·cover/ˌʌndəˈkʌvə(r);NAmEˌʌndərˈkʌvər/
- r" J5 b6 I1 u+ R3 j6 m+ h/ }/ Hadjective
9 a; B. \$ M$ D7 O0 @2 o+ A7 l/ k[usually before noun]
' r0 O8 p# e* X  Q9 ~" iworking or done secretly in order to find out information for the police, a government, etc.秘密工作的;暗中做的;私下進行的
- X, h# n3 G8 }7 B: Z0 R+ V
9 q4 m$ \. K# @# Z& p牛津8双解
$ P1 c2 \6 y% r" p$ I
. l  n1 I, |; Z& L  z9 S# q" dworking or done secretly in order to find out information for the police, a government, etc.不就是卧底的意思么
& g. [% E* J6 _/ y1 ~应该是译法不同吧
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    [LV.2]偶尔看看I

    发表于 2016-1-26 19:01:15 | 显示全部楼层
    “21世紀電腦英漢漢英雙向辭典”(汉英部分对应的实体书不明)对“卧底”的翻译中,列出了stool pigeon
    # O5 ?2 O7 m  m; B9 Y2 Q! I2 h《牛津•外研社英汉汉英词典》 中,“卧底”的名词词性译作mole

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     楼主| 发表于 2016-1-26 19:01:35 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 eeshu 于 2016-1-26 19:04 编辑
    4 m# l8 Q. Z3 _
    Amazon 发表于 2016-1-26 18:52
    - p6 @. A$ F) c2 D% yundercover简1 e' S, O9 J+ ^7 m
    under·cover/谂渂搀夀欂谀瘂夀(r);NAmE谂渂搀夀爂&#71 ...
    8 J. m6 r, C9 Z" T' }/ H) S

    - V+ V; L! P  I2 x; h6 g: {* }严格说来这只能算是“身份隐秘的”而不是“卧底”,尽管“卧底”都是undercover,因为“卧底”一定是指”潜伏到敌方的“身份隐蔽的人。所以undercover police可以指”便衣警察“,而不一定是”警察卧底“。
    - }! W8 y' F! g% ]. X) {- n$ C( j% D* w9 ~+ Y
    况且,undercover多以定语形容词身份出现,不及mole和stoolie明确。

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     楼主| 发表于 2016-1-26 19:06:02 | 显示全部楼层
    slgns87 发表于 2016-1-26 19:010 v4 g3 Z* r7 C  ]1 w
    “21世紀電腦英漢漢英雙向辭典”(汉英部分对应的实体书不明)对“卧底”的翻译中,列出了stool pigeon2 X8 h. w8 \" V* v& H
    《 ...

    2 O* S$ v" j( ~8 ^. U# I谢谢指出,看来读书太少,班门弄斧了。

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    发表于 2016-1-26 20:17:09 | 显示全部楼层
    mole 是內鬼,是个貶义詞,跟rat 的用法一样。% O, K$ L! H% g+ V2 F
    犯罪者會把警方卧底人員叫作mole, rat, 但警方和市民可不會这样叫他.1 s7 i! M. _1 ~& p% }. \( D) P( i
    7 p" n# |. I2 l. Y. _) _3 p$ A
    Stool pigeon (stoolie) 是 sting operation (放蛇行動)中里假扮客人/買家,引坏人上勾的內應,不一定是警方人員.: E# f$ `0 e  {5 w" W. G

    ) q' Y* n2 U( `: O3 s' B- ~+ w: Tundercover agent (臥底人員)則不一定是在放蛇,OA往往也是假扮成一間不法場所的客人之一,但他可能混在当中覌察等机會,不一定是直接令罪犯上勾的人, 这种行動通常泛稱covert operation (秘密行動).
    # |- e! G; t/ d# ~. x' I
    + i8 k5 L5 x& oOA 表露身份抓人時, 秘密行動變為公開行動,英國警察在報告上會幽默地寫作: ...the covert operation turned overt...
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    [LV.8]以坛为家I

    发表于 2016-1-26 20:27:42 | 显示全部楼层
    xiaokeai 发表于 2016-1-26 20:17
    9 d: u  Z1 C7 a% wmole 是內鬼,是个貶义詞,跟rat 的用法一样。8 n$ B! c  H2 l! k2 e
    犯罪者會把警方卧底人員叫作mole, rat, 但警方和市民可不會 ...

    3 Z0 Y1 E+ A- R厉害,涨姿势了!!

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     楼主| 发表于 2016-1-26 21:16:21 | 显示全部楼层
    xiaokeai 发表于 2016-1-26 20:17
    7 M. C2 M7 E9 Fmole 是內鬼,是个貶义詞,跟rat 的用法一样。8 V: d& {. w( P0 L/ U$ i
    犯罪者會把警方卧底人員叫作mole, rat, 但警方和市民可不會 ...

    4 k' d, a4 Y/ i; d
    " |9 b6 f) H, |/ R% _9 ?stool pigeon和我的解释好像一样啊,我不是说了一般是“罪犯”吗?+ x, S0 F: e+ ?" A7 ~
    对mole的补充的确重要,确实多用做贬义,谢谢指出。不过,也并非绝对,比如去年上映的“007:Spectre”里是这么用的:$ s6 u. [4 p5 l$ O  Y
    James Bond: “I’ve been tracking Sciarra ever since.”
    9 Q) ?0 ]8 {8 y4 x2 B5 h9 \5 YEve Moneypenny: “And what have you found?”
    8 C* u0 B7 R2 nJames: “Nothing significant, yet.”$ l: b: s/ f! z/ J9 q; o4 ^
    Eve: “When’s the funeral?”
    2 J0 Q2 W1 @, |( ^, gJames: “Three days. In Rome.”
    * N# s& I1 k% N( _/ fEve: “If you think M’s signing off for that, you’re insane! He won’t let you out of his sight.”
    ' Q0 B# i& h. L* r$ JJames: “Yes, that’s a bit of a problem. Listen, could you do a little quiet digging for me? I heard a name in Mexico, The Pale King.”
    " |% h; _0 R5 vEve: “You want me to be your mole!”
    3 g  F% o8 o: M2 s9 S* IJames: “Yes.”
    2 }& @: s, z% m2 c; @- S) @Eve: “And what makes you think you can trust me?”
    " H1 J: z* b# Q9 u" rJames: “Instinct.”
      g# M8 R, O: h' R) D显然不是贬义词。
    2 m) q, O, L# C5 Q& e/ V8 M4 c0 _5 N' V# @

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    发表于 2016-1-26 21:40:01 | 显示全部楼层
    eeshu 发表于 2016-1-26 21:16) e' ]- A; k7 \6 @8 y) W
    stool pigeon和我的解释好像一样啊,我不是说了一般是“罪犯”吗?, U4 E4 u: K( |. o! Q7 a0 m# Z- i
    对mole的补充的确重要,确实多用做 ...
    $ A; w: A* M* g+ ^+ \
    James: - s8 D& }6 L8 w& m) Z8 A
    是的,这可有点棘手。0 c) T4 Q& J: b& {
    我说,你可以帮我偷偷查探一下吗?  我在墨西哥听过一个名字,叫Pale King。1 K2 w% S4 V$ l2 e2 b7 ^
    Eve: 你想我帮你做内鬼啊!
    ) U" S# {  F) j6 N$ F0 NJames: 正是。. m9 ]. K# p" Z% s% S- d
    + I! c) L: T  H
    这显然是贬义词。

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    发表于 2016-1-26 21:40:23 | 显示全部楼层
    eeshu 发表于 2016-1-26 21:16
    , N0 w0 |7 h% O# E0 ystool pigeon和我的解释好像一样啊,我不是说了一般是“罪犯”吗?
    % F4 W8 U! n0 V3 z7 p" ]8 u对mole的补充的确重要,确实多用做 ...

    % j4 N) n1 e6 a! ZJames: + h) t5 p+ [! D9 m% g( D5 p
    是的,这可有点棘手。
    ) w& u' e$ ?0 s8 O/ s% b我说,你可以帮我偷偷查探一下吗?  我在墨西哥听过一个名字,叫Pale King。
    $ J+ H$ {/ d/ f! V5 N. mEve: 你想我帮你做内鬼啊!3 p$ {9 }6 i7 b- B% T
    James: 正是。
    % D0 H2 R2 }) ?; ~
      z/ ]; `& L3 v$ a1 S, L' s这显然是贬义词。
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    [LV.2]偶尔看看I

    发表于 2016-1-26 21:45:24 | 显示全部楼层
    本帖最后由 elusty 于 2016-1-26 22:47 编辑
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    2 M5 H! H; L, X; ^: E5 D6 ]: N# CMole较为贴切的翻译应该是“双面间谍”,“内鬼”:
    & q- t8 T2 K* |% |' ]! A; cAHD:A spy who operates from within an organization, especially a double agent operating against his or her own government from within its intelligence establishment.) o5 N3 c* ?7 w* O- f' h$ T
    Chambers:A spy who successfully infiltrates a rival organization, esp one not engaging in espionage until firmly established and trusted# f2 Q' Y$ d; B( R/ V
    % L; T4 {6 b1 {4 B; c& K
    *****  j( g- o# C* d- e1 i" ?1 L* f
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mole_(espionage)6 i& i5 _9 e, R4 G. x+ [- g
    In espionage jargon, a mole (also called a penetration agent,[1] deep cover agent, or sleeper agent) is a long-term spy (espionage agent) who is recruited before he or she has access to secret intelligence, and subsequently works his or her way into the target organization.[2] However it is popularly used to mean any long-term clandestine spy or informant within an organization, whether government or private.[2]
    ( p9 y$ R- S  h3 I
    * q  B$ _* @7 J- t****4 O) u* U# O" s, E
    关于rat和mole作为间谍和告密者的一篇文章:
    0 I0 `* [1 L" ]2 W: nhttp://www.slate.com/articles/ne ... rd_for_snitch_.html( d% n% ]1 L# [; a5 V
    Why Are Informers Called Rats? And why are spies called moles?1 j$ Q  z5 r7 ?+ \, a
    1 B' E7 {/ j& b
    When it comes to moles, spy novelist John le Carré is often credited with inventing the term, but mole was used to refer to undercover agents as early as 1922. Still, le Carré does seem to have made it popular, both for the general public and among real-life spies as well. As stated in le Carré’s spy novel Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy, “a mole is a deep-penetration agent so called because he burrows deep into the fabric of Western imperialism.”

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    发表于 2016-1-26 22:16:39 | 显示全部楼层

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    [LV.10]以坛为家III

    发表于 2016-1-28 10:39:52 | 显示全部楼层
    ]$ xzgrep 卧底 *. l8 c/ V; B; K4 e7 k# r
    cambridge.txt.xz:The men who arrived in the guise of drug dealers were actually undercover police officers.   以毒贩身份到来的人实际上是卧底员警。
    9 i' H: }# m+ L! F  wcambridge.txt.xz:The infiltrator was identified and killed.   那个卧底人员身分暴露后被杀害了。
    5 ?, j& G2 }" m' N0 D* Mcambridge.txt.xz:a sting operation   卧底行动noun # A9 L. K; K' ?  Y$ e: x! G- l
    cambridge.txt.xz:Undercover police swooped on three houses in Bristol at 5 a.m. this morning.   今天早上五点,卧底的员警突击搜查了布里斯托尔的三间房子。+ w. M. i) v  ]+ }2 f
    cambridge.txt.xz:an undercover detective   便衣侦探,卧底探员
    8 D; w1 ~' r/ ecollins.txt.xz:1.N-COUNT        可数名词  (受雇于ZF或警方,怂恿某些团体犯法以趁机逮捕或打压他们的)密探,坐探,卧底 An agent provocateur is a person who is employed by the government or the police to encourage certain groups of people to break the law, so they can arrest them or make them lose public support.
    ! ?& o" M1 k9 X. O$ wcollins.txt.xz:Undercover officers found drug-making equipment used to impregnate paper with LSD.卧底警官发现了用于使迷幻药浸透到纸里的毒品制造设备。' _7 K, V$ R" D: W; U( E
    collins.txt.xz:3.N-COUNT        可数名词  间谍;卧底;内奸 A mole is a member of a government or other organization who gives secret information to the press or to a rival organization. . _/ |8 f* \& _/ b. {: K7 h% O
    collins.txt.xz:Journalists informed police who planted an undercover detective to trap Smith.记者通知了警方,后者于是为诱捕史密斯而安插了一名卧底侦探。
    , G' s# P$ `3 D( M9 f3 p, Hcollins.txt.xz:Was Colombo the emissary of Pope Paul, his Trojan horse within the Commission?...科隆博是教皇保罗的特使吗?是他在委员会内部设下的卧底吗?
    / [$ m9 N# P( D5 S% q& Y  p, Ecollins.txt.xz:1.ADJ        形容词  秘密的;密探的;卧底的 Undercover work involves secretly obtaining information for the government or the police. 8 m  u# _1 i$ x( A
    collins.txt.xz:...undercover reporters.卧底记者Undercover is also an adverb.  3 V- O- ?' x4 \
    collins.txt.xz:Swanson persuaded Hubley to work undercover to capture the killer.斯旺森说服赫布利去做卧底以便将凶手抓获。+ I2 {! W3 ?% T- r& l1 I8 z
    newoxford2.txt.xz:a police stooge.卧底的警察。

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    发表于 2016-1-28 11:44:32 | 显示全部楼层
    卧底% K0 j+ T* A, u  k( U5 c

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